Hi everyone!
I'm attempting to make a mid-thigh length woolen coat/overcoat (EDIT: to be worn over just a shirt in mildly cold weather, no other layers in the middle, hence the snug fit) with a pattern drafted by following the videos. (It was something I had already started before I found this video series).
Since this is a coat making series, I think it's only fair to avoid any overcoat specific questions and keep my questions limited to what is covered in the coat making series - Improving the back fitting, wrinkles at the back of the sleeves and the neck-shoulder seam line direction. I'm not very experienced so any suggestions will be humbly accepted and much appreciated!
I'm working with some cheap polywool fabric for a test coat before I attempt it with wool. I've drafted the coat pattern and simply lengthened it down and straightened the Centre Front line up to the collar to make a simple funnel neck coat for now.
Here's the coat pattern I drafted using the same measurements as the video but head unit 8.5
And the toile I've made just to check the initial fit (not canvassed):
1. My first issue is back fitting. My normal posture is more erect than the default pattern. There was enough room in the center front (for a snug fit), but the back is quite loose. I have taken in 5/8 inches uniformly at the centre back seam, making the seam allowance 1 inch. - Do I need to take in more at the CB seem and/or should I reduce the balance? - Should I try to take it in a bit on the sides at the waist level? - I haven't sewn in the front darts yet. I think that will reduce the overall waist circumference and will help a bit. I'll post again once I've done that.
2. The other issue is the wrinkles at the back of the sleeves. From watching the fitting video I think I need to rotate the sleeves to adjust the pitch to where my hands naturally rest. Right now I'm using the back and front pitches marked from the pattern.
- How do I know if the armhole depth/height is not causing this? - Is there any other reason for the wrinkles in the sleeves?
3. The last issue at this stage is the direction of the neck - shoulder seam. It appears to be going back rather than straight to the top of the shoulder.
- Is this by design?
- I have tried to straighten it on one of the shoulders by simply marking where it should be and re-sewing it. Can it cause any issues if I choose to do that?
The loose back and wrinkled backs of sleeves
The neck-shoulder seem going back and the marked lien where I would like it to be
The straightened neck-shoulder seem (please ignore the misleading blue lines)
Thanks in advance for any help and suggestions!
Rahul
Based on my experience, I would say: be very careful about taking too much out at CB seam. A tight back will result in an uncomfortable coat which you won't enjoy wearing. I think the back width looks good now. The excess cloth may be caused by too long back balance. Try pinning out 1-1.5cm of cloth horizontally and see how this looks.
Sleeves might need more 'scoop' in the underside. Same may be necessary for the armscye, but it's difficult to tell. I think pitch looks OK.
Overall, I think it's too tight in general, especially since you haven't taken darts out yet. You may like it that way, but I like a looser coat for comfort.
I believe the slant of the shoulder seam is deliberate. It allows for the back seam to be cut more on the bias, which allows for greater easing-in of cloth to accommodate the shoulder blade. It also hides the seam slightly from the front & side. I wouldn't change it, but if you want to I don't think it will cause huge problems.
Otherwise, I think this is great for a first attempt. Also, definitely wait for Rory's opinion, I'm not a professional - just adding my 10c worth.
Thanks Benjamin. I'll try pinning it to see what effect it has. I'm thinking of doing that on the line joining the two back pitch marks? Can you please tell me what scoop means or point me to some link for it? If I had to guess, I think you mean the arm-hole needs to be larger towards the bottom?
Yes, I'm after a close fit that doesn't restrict movement. I've been checking that all the time while adjusting the fit. I don't expect to wear anything other than a shirt/tshirt underneath.
Thanks again! Rahul
I'll be interested in what Rory has to say, but I think an overcoat is drafted with much more ease than a coat (jacket) because it's typically worn over a jacket or a sweater. While I'm no expert, I don't recall seeing any contemporary overcoats with double vents. I don't think that bigger, looser overcoats have side bodies; I believe that they are used in more form-fitting, vintage styles.
I always assumed that the coat sewing techniques could be applied to an overcoat, but that one would have to start with an overcoat draft or greatly modify a coat draft.
Hi. Thanks for the response. I've already tried making one with an overcoat draft from the Winifred Aldrich book and it turned out ok as a "conventional overcoat" but it wasn't the fit I had in mind. I tried to alter it to what I wanted but it was getting too complex.
I'm actually trying to remake a coat I bought at Reiss several years ago and lost while running to catch a flight. I've been waiting for them to bring it back for 6 years but no luck 😐 It wasn't a conventional overcoat so perhaps I've used the wrong term to describe it. A slim fit, mid-length wool coat with a funnel neck is a more accurate way to describe it.
Now that I have tried Rory's draft I feel it gets me very close to what I had in mind. It is unconventional, I agree. I'm just excited to see how the final one will turn out and I'll get some practice before I start on a regular coat/Jacket following the videos series fully.
Do you have any suggestions to fix the fitting issues if you can assume I'm working on a coat? 😉
Thanks!
Rahul
Hi,
I didn't make any fitting suggestions because I'm really not experienced enough to think they would be helpful and I was concerned they might be irrelevant because your coat is too close-fitting even though you desire a snug fit. But I could be wrong about the fit. Again, I'm no expert, but most of the contemporary men's overcoats I've seen don't have darts or a great deal of waist suppression. I don't see how you could sew the darts right now without it being extremely tight.
It may be the angle of the photograph, but you appear to have a lower right shoulder (which is very common). Did you apply the shoulder pads for the fitting? I think you probably need to fix the shoulders first before worrying about other things.
You might want to post a photograph of the coat that serves as your inspiration.
I seem to remember that Rory suggested you consider making a coat (jacket) before advancing to an overcoat. Maybe that was good advice. It is very complicated.
I'm not doing the shoulder pads for this toile but will do that when I start making the coat with the actual fabric and request comments for that.
I unfortunately wasn't able to find any pictures of the coat on the internet. I'm just making it from memory.
Thanks,
@Rahul Sharma I wrote a longer response, hit the wrong button, and now it's gone. Shorter version: jacket muslins are usually fit with the basic parts in units. First, the body (no facings, no pockets). Once the body fits well, the sleeves are added. It can be a waste of time to fit the first muslin with the sleeves because modifications to the body often change the armscye and the sleeve has to be changed to fit it. After the sleeves are done the collar is added and adjusted.
I think adding the shoulder pads will help because in addition to the direct changes made to the pattern itself, the pad will lift the low shoulder, giving you a better idea of how it will look.
Roberto Cabrera's Classic Tailoring Techniques: A Construction Guide for Men's Wear discusses basic fitting of a men's jacket muslin. It addresses posture issues and a dropped shoulder. The book assumes the reader is using a commercial pattern, not one that has been drafted from scratch as in bespoke. There are two editions. The newer one is expensive but you may be able to borrow it from a library. The older one is available as a free PDF online. Google it.
To be clear, this is not the method we're learning. I'm suggesting this only because you started this coat and created a muslin.
Having read all the comments I am pleased to say I agree mostly with what both Benjamin and Kunsthandwerk had to say. I don’t think the under-sleeve needs scooping out, perhaps just rotating the sleeves as you suggest. I would call it a driving coat. Not exactly an overcoat but a coat that is long. Styled around the time when motor cars became a thing. Side vents aren’t usually found on this sort of garment but please be creative. Your only limitation is your own imagination. My shoulder seams do fall to the back, that’s my style, engrained into the system shown. You probably have a low shoulder on the back right. Check out the video series, I cover that somewhere. Perhaps one of the others can direct you to the episodes. But please keep posting. If I have missed anything don’t be afraid to call me out on it.
Hi Rory. Thanks for the response. I'll try the sleeve and back balance adjustments today.
Yes, my right shoulder does tend to drop. I remember from the cutting video that you dropped the right shoulder. Is there a way I can find out exactly how much to drop it for my body or is it something I'll need to leave enough inlay for and adjust at the fitting stage?
Thanks!
Rahul
Start with a 1/2” and go from there